I spent about an hour talking with John and Deo over the phone, but not about ecology or factory farming. Instead, we talked about parenting and living outside the cultural norm. Although, I spoke with the Robbins separately, this interview is edited to reflect that we discussed many of the same questions.

What do you think are some of the important attributes that parents need in order to engender social consciousness in their children?

John: You have to be what you want your children to emulate. You have to walk your talk if you want to raise self-reliant, compassionate, grounded children who are going to grow into adults who are capable and compassionate and respectful of other people. You have to be the change you want to see occur.

What do you think helped you rear Ocean to be a compassionate activist, environmentalist and educator?

Deo: For me, it was always to respect him and to realize that he came with his own destiny. If Ocean had wanted to follow any pursuit and if I really felt that was his destiny and was what he was here for, I would have supported him. It just happens to be a wonderful blessing that our interests are so similar and the things he cares so deeply and so passionately about are things that I really care about. It's incredibly fulfilling.

Ocean was certainly exposed to all the wonderful things that we were doing and learning and the incredible people that would come to our lives. He picked up on that. He was drawn to that.

So many vegetarian parents are criticized for rearing their children as vegetarians. How did you handle this? I would think vegetarianism has come a long way since then.

Deo: Vegetarianism has come a long way. There is a lot more appreciation in the culture for it, although there are pockets where it is still considered very fringe. On the whole, there is a lot more support in our culture for people making healthy, compassionate choices than there were then.

Ocean was not educated in the public school system. Fortunately, he went to several alternative schools and was homeschooled after that. He wasn't subjected to a lot of the peer pressure that kids are today. I think the most important thing was we always explained why we made the choices we did. One time, he was going to a birthday party. There was going to be cake with things in it that he didn't usually eat, mainly sugar. John talked to him about what was in the cake and why we didn't eat it. He asked Ocean to watch the other kids after they ate the cake. He said, before the cake came out everybody was playing and having a good time. After the cake and ice cream, he said, everyone started fighting. Kids were crying and a few mothers had to be called to take their kids home. He got to observe that at a very young age. We let him learn for himself. We also invited him to try it, so that he wouldn't just be taking our word for it. He did. He tried eating cake at a party and he said he felt very spacey and hyper. He also noticed how tired he felt later. By taking the time to explain to him and not laying it down like some law that must be obeyed, it really became his choice.

It's the same thing with meat and dairy products. Children love animals so much. If you really take the time to explain to them (in a sensitive way so you don't scare them) and reassure them that they are going be healthy without eating animal products; that it is, in fact, better for their growing bodies, most children will choose not to.

We often hear vegetarian parents talk about the lack of support from their families and their communities. How was it for you when you started your journey?

Deo: Of course they [family] were concerned, as most people of that generation, that we were going to die of protein deficiency and other such things. I think that patience and sharing with my parents some of the research I'd come across; mainly not challenging or judging or threatening their choices. Over time they saw how healthy I was, how happy I was feeling, how my life was working and came to actually respect my choices. Over the years they have actually become much more sympathetic and understanding.

Were you vegetarian when you were pregnant with Ocean? Did you have a midwife or OB/GYN? What were their feelings about your vegetarianism during pregnancy?

Deo: Yes. I was. I had a great pregnancy actually. I didn't gain a lot of weight. I remember being very active until the day before he was born. I had a very healthy pregnancy with no complications or problems. Ocean was born a 6-½ pound baby, real healthy. I had a very uneventful pregnancy. We had a back-up family physician. He wasn't concerned about vegetarianism as long as I was healthy and thriving, which I obviously was. Though, I know, in those days there were a lot of people getting pressure for not eating in a traditional way. I think I was feeling so healthy and vital that it was pretty hard to say that I was being malnourished.

I understand that you have worked with the founders of the Kokomon and Aeesha Clottey of the Attitudinal Healing Connection in the Bay Area. One of the principals of attitudinal healing is "We are students to each other." How would you say this applies to socially conscious parenting, especially in the areas of vegetarianism and activism?

John: Our children are our teachers every bit as much as they are our students and, in some cases, more so, because they may have wisdom and they certainly have innocence that we may not have. If we can learn from that and learn who they are, that's a profound thing.

A lot of people get in the trap of doing for their children and not letting their children do for them. It really needs to be equal. When Ocean was growing up, if there was ever anything he could do for us that would make a difference to us or make our lives better, I would tell him. He would usually do it. I would always thank him and appreciate him for the specific thing he'd done because, in that way, he got to experience that he was contributing and making a difference to us; that his love mattered to us, that he was a tremendously valuable and important part of our lives. I think every parent feels that about their child but they don't often let their children know it and give their children ways of expressing it that work, that make a difference.

Deo: I have learned so much from Ocean and, now, Michele, his wife…and actually from our grandbabies, too. We're learning everyday about how human beings unfold. Ocean brings so much new information and insight into my life with a fresh pair of eyes and a whole generation of newness. He teaches me all the time. His gentle wisdom is really a great support in my life. Then these grandbabies….seeing little human beings develop is one of the most awesome things I can imagine on this earth, in life. Watching their curiosity and watching their wonder and their awe and their innocence and realizing that we all were that way at one point helps me have a lot of understanding about people and about myself and about life. Seeing the vulnerability of these babies and realizing how dependent they are on us to feed them, to help create their bodies, to care for them, to nurture them.

Here you are with Ocean, Michele, your "daughter-in-love," and your grandsons all living together and working together so closely. How do you make this work?

Deo: It takes work. It is not something that is just a given. I think all relationships take work. We definitely take regular time together to talk about family issues and each relationship in the family. We are always consciously evolving as a family. We are all committed to the boys. We all talk about what they need and what we see. With four pairs of eyes and four pairs of hands, you see and learn a lot more. It's really helpful to have all four of us to create the best possible situation in which these babies can thrive.

John: We all live in a house together. It kind of has two wings; Deo's and mine and Ocean's, Michelle's, River's, and Bodhi's. There is a common area in between that is the kitchen, the living room, and the dining room all in one in a big room. This is where we eat all our meals together.

The twins were very premature, which is challenging. They are special needs children. There's been a lot of trauma there. They spent the first two months of their lives, almost, in intensive care in the hospital. That is a lot to deal with, and one of the things is that I do all the shopping, and Deo does 90 percent of the cooking, and I do 90 percent of the cleaning up washing dishes and stuff. So, we've been doing this for over a year now. That's one of our ways of supporting Ocean and Michele and their parenting. Of course, we also play with the babies, take care of the babies and all that, but not nearly as much as they do.

I adore them all. It's a privilege and a pleasure to be with them and I feel very honored that Ocean and Michele-who could, if they wished to, live anywhere they want within reason-they chose to live with us, and it's because of the tremendous rapport and profound compatibility that we have with each other. I don't present it as an ideal; although it's ideal for us.

We try we do the best we can and we do really want to live in a different way than the cultural norm, because the cultural norm is producing people who go to war to solve their problems, who have conflicts with others and only know violent reactions. The cultural norm is producing people who are so insecure and afraid that they are destroying the environment and are trying to fill up their emptiness, all out of the fear and the emptiness inside them. If we can look at and face that emptiness and address it directly with love and respect and consciousness and caring, then maybe we can produce a different kind of human being. Maybe we can become a different kind of human being. I feel that's a historical imperative on our species, and I feel it as a personal imperative. I always have. This is what my life is about. What a gift to be able to undertake that type of "experiment in truth", as Ghandi called it, with people who feel a similar urge.

Do you think your views of childrearing have changed since you were raising Ocean?

Deo: I'm sure they have. It was 28 years ago. I've been growing and learning and changing all this time, so I am able to bring some of who I am now into my grandparenting, which is a wonderful blessing. It really makes sense, if you think about it, that young people really haven't had that much time experience in life, but they have the physical energy and the stamina to take care of little ones, and certainly the love. The grandparents, if they are allowed and blessed enough to be able to play a role, have some of the wisdom and some of the lessons they've learned in life and probably a lot more humility about life and what we can expect in who we are. I think being able to bring that into the rearing of a child is a real blessing.

Integrity, compassion and respect seem to be underlying themes. Then, there's the way you live: the solar-powered home and offices, growing your own produce, and purchasing from local growers. What do you say to those people who might not be in a position to do that? What would you say to people whose integrity is being questioned because they are vegetarians wearing leather shoes or they are being criticized for focusing their energies on animal rights or environmentalism as opposed to other movements such as human rights or abortion?

John: Your integrity is your own business, not someone else's. Integrity emerges out of the process of doing the best that you can. It's not a state that you arrive at and is complete and finished. It's this ongoing journey of learning to live in moral lineup with your deepest instincts for wholeness and with your true life. It is a profound journey.

I'm uncomfortable when people are judged and the vegan police come in and say "Oh look at that. He's got leather on his belt, and over there is someone who's got…" There's no compassion in that. The work is to make our lives instruments of healing in whatever ways we can, in whatever situations we're given.

I'm not always comfortable with the word "vegan," because no one's a vegan. I mean, I'm not a vegan really. You can't be in this culture. I drive a car. Car tires are made from things that have animal ingredients in them. So where do you draw the line? Each of us draws it where we do. So, for someone to say, "You wear leather, therefore you're not a vegan." Who's the person saying that? They might not have leather, but the have something else in their lives. I'm much more interested in seeing how I can help people do they best they can than in judging them or in finding fault with anybody. If you look at how difficult life can be, it's very humbling, and it's amazing that any of us have gotten as far as we have. I thank the higher power for all the help that I've been given to learn.

What are your suggestions for parents who hope to raise socially or environmentally conscious children?

John: Become as socially and environmentally conscious as you can. Share your learning process with your children. Share what you are learning. Share what your choices are and why you're making them. Share what your frustrations and suffering are. I think one of the biggest mistakes parents make is they try to spare their children suffering. Out of that obviously well intended motivation, they don't share their own pain. Then they present a façade to their children instead of the reality.

I want to protect them from things that are toxic, things that are destructive to them, but then I want to help them to learn how to respond to these forces in our world in a creative constructive way. When they are little, you need to protect them. They can't respond, and you don't lay your own pain on your children in a way that is toxic to them or demanding upon them. My attitude is more a partnership model and certainly the parent has responsibilities and capabilities, and the child doesn't. The roles are not by any means identical or the same. But, you can undertake those responsibilities from a place of respect for the child or the younger person, knowing that in the greater scheme of things you are equals; that they are your teacher every bit as much as you are their teacher and maybe even more.

What would you say is the top priority for the ethical consumption/environmental movement?

John: I don't know. I think each of us has our own priority. My sense of it is that we're like a team. Some of us are playing one position and others are playing another. You have a different priority to play your part in that role most fully. I think each of us has to honor our dharma. I see this profoundly complex mosaic: different groups and different individuals working in different parts of the country and different parts of the world on different aspects of the problem. All of us are hopefully instruments of the great healing work that needs to be done. There's a balance. On the one hand, the urgency of the situation, the dire straits that our planet is in; the astounding, destructive, and disastrous consequences of inhuman actions. On the other hand, is not losing hope and not becoming embittered and cynical to the point that we just become more of the same. Someone asked me recently if I am an optimist and if I have any grounds for optimism now? I said, "Well, I think it's much too late and I think things are much too bad for pessimism."

Deo: I think there are way too many problems for us all to focus on one issue. I think all these issues are important. I think they are all connected in ways we're only beginning to see; issues of social justice and health and environmental issues. I'm really appreciative other fellow humans have felt called to work on some of those issues. We don't have the time, energy, or space to waste putting each other down or comparing what we're doing. That's ridiculous. As long as we're going in a direction that is more compassionate and more humane and more equal for everyone, I think that's what we need to be doing. Let's applaud and salute and appreciate all the positive choices that each of us makes every day.